Deconstructing Conventional
Welcome to Deconstructing Conventional, a show fascinated by one simple question: How did we get here? How did what we call “conventional” come to earn that title? Is there a better way, and if so, what would it look like? This show is about deconstructing two things: Our individual biases, and the systems that run (or attempt to run) our everyday lives.
We do this deconstruction with an eye for where we can reconstruct something better that leads to flourishing societies, and robust physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health. In short, this show is about questioning our assumptions and practicing systems-level thinking.
I’m your host, Christian Elliot, I’ll do my best to stay curious and humble. You do the same and we’re both bound to learn something. Welcome to the show. Prepare to have your thinking stretched.
Deconstructing Conventional
Dr. Peter Breggin: Brain Hijackers - The Dehumanizing Truth About Psych Meds, Methylene Blue, and Profit-Driven Crimes of Psychiatry
In this profound and eye-opening conversation, psychiatrist Dr. Peter Breggin shares the extraordinary journey that has earned him the title "conscience of psychiatry." With seven decades of experience fighting against medical corruption, Dr. Breggin offers rare insights into the true nature of psychiatric medications and their impact on the human brain and spirit.
The interview begins with Dr. Breggin's moving personal story—how his childhood experiences, including early exposure to Holocaust imagery, shaped his determination to stand against injustice. This moral compass led him, at age 18, to volunteer at a state mental hospital where he witnessed conditions so horrific he compared them to concentration camps. Rather than turning away, he committed himself to reforming psychiatry from within.
Dr. Breggin delivers a powerful critique of modern psychiatric practice, dismantling the "chemical imbalance" theory as a pharmaceutical marketing fiction. He explains how psychiatric medications function as "chemical lobotomies," damaging the brain rather than healing it. Particularly illuminating is his concept of "medication spellbinding"—how drugs impair the brain in ways that prevent patients from recognizing the harm being done, creating a dangerous dependency cycle.
The conversation then turns to an urgent warning about methylene blue, a substance gaining popularity in alternative health circles. Drawing on his expert knowledge, he reveals its dangers as "the mother of all pharmaceuticals"—a powerful enzyme inhibitor that can trigger severe psychiatric disturbances and potentially lethal interactions.
Throughout the interview, Dr. Breggin's humanity shines through his scientific explanations. He shares touching stories of his marriage to Ginger, his partner of 42 years, and how their relationship has sustained his difficult work. The discussion culminates with his five principles for living—among them "dare to trust in a loving God," offering not just critique but a positive vision for what human connection and healing can look like.
Whether you're concerned about psychiatric medications, interested in medical ethics, or simply seeking wisdom from a life dedicated to truth and justice, this conversation will challenge your assumptions and perhaps change how you view mental health care forever. Dr. Breggin's message is ultimately one of hope—that even in our most vulnerable moments, healing comes through human connection rather than chemical intervention.
- Dr. Breggin's website
- Dr. Breggin's Substack
- Emergency Notification on Methylene Blue
- RFK, mRNA vaccines, and Methylene Blue
- Dr. Vliet & Dr. Breggin discuss Methylene Blue
Reverse Any Chronic Health Condition in Three Steps - The Simplest Path to Healing You've Ever Seen
NEED TO DETOX AND HEAL?
- Visit our website
- Compare our Detox Programs
- See our recommended products
- Download the Healing United PMA App
- Reverse Any Chronic Illness in Three Steps
Hello everyone. Welcome to episode number 54. My guest today is the one and only Dr Peter Bregan. If you know him, you know it's not flattery to say he is one of a kind. Just in studying for this episode, I had the impossible task of figuring out what to highlight about this remarkable man. His so-called brief bio is several pages long and his full bio is 31 pages. He is a lifelong psychiatrist and his list of psychiatric reform accomplishments goes back seven decades and not surprisingly, it is also several pages long. So of the many things I could highlight about him, two that made it into this interview are that he has been an expert witness testifying against pharmaceutical companies in over 100 court cases. He is also the man responsible for putting an end to the formal practice of frontal lobotomies and in case you don't know about that barbaric practice, I got him to explain it during the interview.
Speaker 1:Aptly, dr Bregan has become known as the conscience of psychiatry and you would think that would be kind of a natural feature of the profession but sadly, as you'll hear, it doesn't seem to be. Dr Bregan has been calling out medical corruption and specific to his industry that means medical mutilation and medical poisoning since 1954. I've been following his work fairly closely since COVID started, and one thing that has repeatedly stood out to me is that he seems to have a remarkably high pain tolerance, because he is not afraid to call people out or to testify against big pharma. He has taken so many arrows and yet he does not back down from a fight, and this interview ended up unfolding kind of roughly in three stages. So it started with me asking him to tell us the story of how he got into psychiatry, and in the process of telling that story it became clear what has kept him in it. His own childhood and his teenage years birthed in him the role of being an advocate for people who didn't have one, and his time working in a psych ward in a hospital at the age of 18 set him on the course from which he never looked back. So after telling that story, we pivoted to one of his areas of deep expertise, and that is the topic of psychiatric medications. So if you or someone you care about is on a psych med, especially if you have kids on them, you do not want to miss this interview. It may literally save your life or theirs.
Speaker 1:In episode 24, I actually interviewed Kim Witzak, who lost her husband to suicide shortly after he started taking Zoloft, a so-called antidepressant which his doctor prescribed not for depression but for sleep. And psychiatric medications are being handed out like candy today and, as you'll hear Dr Bregan talk about, they are exceedingly dangerous. So he and I talked about who invented the phrase chemical imbalance and the irony that it is the medications that hijack the brain and create a chemical imbalance. We talked about why Dr Bregan would argue that all psychiatric medications are neurotoxins that damage the brain, all of them so related to that. We also talked about one of the current darlings of health pop culture, methlene blue. He has what I think is a very important take on the substance, including its origins, what it inhibits in the brain and how it became the base of many of today's top psychiatric medications. He also calls out Robert F Kennedy Jr quite strongly in the episode. So I'll have a couple of links for you in the show notes where you can learn more about his thoughts on methylene blue.
Speaker 1:Another important topic we talked about was the concept of medication spellbinding, which is where a person loses the ability to perceive the damage a medication is doing and they actually come to perceive the brain's impairment as a sign that the drug is helping them. Not surprisingly, so many people have a hard time coming off psychiatric medications. In fact they are the hardest class of medications to come off of. But it is possible. So he didn't have time to unpack his holistic philosophy of what it takes to wean off medications, so we talked about doing a follow-up episode to unpack that in more detail. But for now I can refer you to his great book, which I have called Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal, where the second half of the book is dedicated to helping people come off these medications.
Speaker 1:The third section of our interview got into the philosophical waters of what it means to be human and what makes life sweet or bitter, and he has what he calls five primary principles that he lives by, and the first one is dare to trust in a loving God. So wait until you hear what he has to say about that principle, coming from a lifelong intellectual who spent a career needing to argue for what he believes in a courtroom. What does it mean to dare to trust? So I won't spoil it for you, but I'll have some more links in the show notes where you can learn more about Dr Bregan and his work. So, like any good man and the work that he does, there is always a sturdy, unflappable woman in his corner who is the reason he is able to do what he does. That is certainly true in my household, and it is in Dr Bregan's world as well. So thank you, ginger, for what you have done to keep this man engaged and helping us all. You are both a bigger blessing than you will ever know.
Speaker 1:Okay, without further ado, here is an interview with a man I deeply admire on so many levels.
Speaker 1:I give you Dr Peter Bregan All right. Hello everyone, welcome to today's show. It is my delight to have one of my living heroes, dr Peter Bregan, on the show, and for those of you who have not heard of him, I guess I'd describe him as one of the bravest and most intelligent people I've ever met. So he is a lifelong psychiatrist and author. He's written, by my count, at least 20 books. He's been an expert witness in more than 100 court cases related to the damages done by psychiatric medications. He has his own show On America Out Loud and is a prolific writer on Substack with his blog called Bregan Alerts, exposing Global Predators, where he writes about all things health, covid and freedom, and I don't think you'll find a man with a more impressive resume yet. He is very humble and caring and down to earth, and he's basically the man I want to be when I grow up. So, bregan, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I'm delighted to have you here.
Speaker 3:You look very grown up and you look very intelligent and I suspect you have quite a bit of courage Actually, for the people that you like, that we're close with. I mentioned Catherine Austin Fitz and you mentioned Lee Valit, and to interview those people is to be brave in itself, so I'm sure you're doing a good job for us out there in the world.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you very much for those kind words. Well, I'm as interested just in what got you into psychiatry as what kept you in it. So before we get into today's topic about the dangers of psychiatry, I guess talk a minute about who Peter Bregan is. I'm embarrassed to admit I have some clients who don't know who you are. So, if you don't mind, I'd love for you to start, maybe, with the story of kind of being, the wide-eyed 18-year-old who was getting permission from the hospital superintendent to work with the institutionalized people that most had just written off.
Speaker 3:So maybe tell us that I'm 89 years old. I'm going to start earlier even because I had this really astonishing early life career that came out of the blue and and depressed. I've been raised by a nanny who was forced to leave when I was five and I was just slightly bewildered. But I look at a picture of myself in that sixth grade yearbook and I've got this big grin on my face and the yearbook I'm elected president and they say I'm very witty. And that was the beginning, out of the blue, that I might be somebody in some way, and that never ended. I was president of the homeroom and that was the class.
Speaker 3:But then sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, I was president of my freshman class, my sophomore class, vice president of my junior year, editor of the newspaper. I had wonderful friends. I looked really successful and I was dreadfully sad inside and I did a lot of reading on my own and I was very aware of this was in a very Jewish community. It was a new Jewish community coming into a Christian community out on the south shore of Long Island Hewlett-Woodmere, lindbergh, the five towns All the people around me who were friends were Jewish. And then we had other friends. It was how it just separated out in those days.
Speaker 3:It's quite interesting to think back to it and the young people I knew were, as a group, the brightest I would ever meet.
Speaker 3:I mean, they were all just full of stuff and they were interesting and exciting and we were friends and I was a defender because Jews generally although certainly in our class they were tough Jews because you know, half the class was Jewish and some of them terrific athletes I was somewhat of an athlete.
Speaker 3:Half the class was Jewish and some of them terrific athletes I was somewhat of an athlete but I was a defender of anybody who messed with my classmates, all 5'4", 135 pounds of me, to the extent that nobody messed with my friends and part of it was rooted in a sense. I got very early when and I've talked about this on the air before, so I like to think of new ways to talk about it but basically I was watching a family movie when I was nine years old. At the theater my mother and father were with me. I have no idea what we were going to see and movie tone news put on the invasion of Europe and the liberation of the first extermination camp the first films out and I had no idea about this and none of my friends in this broad.
Speaker 3:We never talked about the Holocaust. Our parents didn't want us to know. I don't think Growing up, even into high school, nobody talked about it. I can remember a single conversation about it and it was overwhelming to watch this. Dead Jews in piles, deaf dead Jews hanging on wires and stuff like that. And then it became a double whammy.
Speaker 3:My not very empathic uncle, married into the family, had been a liberator at one of the camps. He loved the war. He loved telling me little stories of people getting shot and killed and all these kinds of things. He'd risen up from being like a storekeeper to an officer in the army and he had those qualities and they really came out. I don't think he was ever fully fulfilled again, but he showed me photographs that he took of a torture chamber in vivid detail that I've never disclosed to anybody else, not even my wife, and I think that those two things built in me a choice Am I going to be scared or am I going to be mad? Am I going to be frightened or am I going to stand up for myself? What am I going to do when the day comes, and I had nobody to talk to about it. So this connects directly to my freshman year at Harvard.
Speaker 3:I was into an honors program at Harvard. I mean I was really good coming from a public school and it was American history and literature. I had no idea. It's really ironic because that has really helped me in what I do now in looking at politics. But I only had two years of that because I eventually went pre-med.
Speaker 3:But a friend of mine asked me to come out and volunteer at the state mental hospital. His brother had started a program there, harvard Radcliffe Mental Hospital Volunteer Program. We had people from other schools, like Brandeis, driving in and going to the state mental hospital volunteer program. We had people from other schools like Brandeis driving in and going to the state mental hospital with different cars. They're all under our program and eventually I would lead the program for a couple of years and have an impact on organized psychiatry to some extent and got write-ups in big newspapers, magazines, got write-ups in mental health programs, not necessarily about me but about our program. And there's a picture of me somewhere in the Saturday evening post kneeling beside a patient holding her hand on the women's violent war at Metropolitan State Hospital. So way back then I was involved. But the striking thing was that the minute I got inside and maybe even from the answer, but the minute I got inside the state mental health hospital it was an extermination concentration camp.
Speaker 3:The images, the smell. My uncle told me about the stench, the stench of these things. It was better or worse than any movie you've ever seen of the snake pits. It was 1954. It would take another year or so for the antipsychotic drugs to come in. So the patients still showed feelings. So it was really. Many of them were battered by shock treatment, by lobotomy, by insulin, coma poisoning, and so I started working in the worst hell in America, the state mental hospital, the worst expression of psychiatry the state mental hospital. Later I would learn that the Holocaust actually grew out of psychiatry in the state mental hospitals. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I wrote a scientific paper on it and delivered it in Germany at the first medical conference in Germany ever on medicine in the Third Reich. I became so knowledgeable and I wrote a good article about it. So knowledgeable and I wrote a good article about it, and that organized psychiatry started murdering its patients. Who was planning it? Before Hitler had any power. They were planning how they could murder their patients if they could just set it up right and they called it useless. They called patients useless eaters. And I didn't know at the time. But it's a part of socialism, it's a part of collectivism, it's part of big government to want to depopulate people. And this was also tied in, of course, to anti-semitism. But here they're doing. They didn't even do the jews. They didn't give euthanasia to Jews, they didn't deserve it. They gave euthanasia to their own populations. Couldn't bump back and forth here, but it all ties in, I hope, with the big paintbrush. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so I started to see what was going on, because, maybe because I had been depressed pretty much totally until age 12 and then only mildly or moderately or up and down or something thereafter, until ginger in my 40s, I really found happiness. It's really interesting, but I was always, you know, doing things, and part of why I want to tell people about my success is because I'm also telling people how much I was suffering inside. But it wasn't like I was ineffective. Yeah, I was ineffective with my love life, but not with the rest of it. Yeah, man that is such rich context.
Speaker 1:I didn't know much of any of that. No Well to hear the part about. I heard about the part about the hospitals and how you made a big difference there. But you just preemptively answered my next question, which is just where did you get your pain, tolerance for standing up against big systems and what keeps you going? And I can, I can already sense the answer to that now just from hearing that story. Is there anything else you want to add to that? What do you sense, want to add to that? What do you sense? I just sense that you're you as a kid. You had a your own appearance of success, yet feeling empty or feeling like you weren't measuring up. And then you see that in the faces of other people. Then you see the holocaust. Then you see institutionalized, essentially depopulation. You see, see hospitals are supposed to do, they're opposite of it and the conscience came alive. It sounds like.
Speaker 3:The conscience is already alive and that's part of the being sad and depressed. You know the sensitive. I had one or two wonderful professors of psychiatry Most of them, they have to be so corrupt to participate in this system. But one was Thomas Zoss, s-e-a-s-s-e, and Tom used to say if you weren't suicidal as an adolescent, you weren't a sensitive human being.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's one way to put it Okay.
Speaker 3:But yes, and it sort of built into me, I'm absolutely alone dealing with the holocaust in my head and I'm going through all the alternatives and out of that comes, nobody will do that to me. I'll die. Kill him first, killed whatever it is. No one will humiliate me like that. I wasn't so much afraid of death, it was like we're so humiliating. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I never realized that before I wasn't thinking about they'll kill me.
Speaker 3:It was like they will never, do anything. Yeah, it was a shot at your dignity that you wouldn't allow.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, I actually got a chill just thinking about that. I had not realized that till now and to this day I don't fear death in particular, but I sure don't want anybody messing with my dignity myself, my loved ones and so on. So there's this kind of mix that evolves, and the program I was so successful in it. I was giving lectures as an undergraduate. I had my first publication in a Yale review of some sort, a university for paper I gave on volunteering. My first book started to be written and I would eventually come out as a co-author, but they would sanitize the book that I started. The book that I started was State Mental Hospital's Hell Holes and we brought love into it and it was neither the hell hole nor the love was in the sanitized book that came out.
Speaker 1:Right, that doesn't count as many drugs.
Speaker 3:So I went into psychiatry to reform it. Why not? I'm 18, 19 years old. When I get involved I'm discovering that these people well, I knew this and then I walked in. That the patients were no different from me. That's one thing. I knew this and then I walked in. That the patients were no different from me, that's one thing that I knew immediately and I can't tell you why that was, other than my own sadness. But maybe I got touched with empathy by God.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure how this all works. Honestly, we are really thinking about it me and Ginger a lot lately. We've been married 42 years now. We're thinking a lot about our blessings and our good fortune and how does this all happen? Why are we alive? How did we stay from being killed? Good questions, interesting conversation in the evenings. But you know, I've been on radio God. I even was on a Voice of America in high school for an editorial I wrote praising the UN. I read it on Voice of America. I was naturally left wing, as any good young person is, and I was naturally being rewarded by it getting on the Voice of America.
Speaker 3:No idea what your politics are, but I actually thought I could go into psychiatry in some way and reform it. And there were wings of psychiatry. I didn't know they'd all be dead in five years or ten years. For most One wing was like a communist wing, a left wing years. For most One wing was like a communist wing, a left wing, where you know you explain mental illness by illness in the community, by illness in the society, and there were people talking about that.
Speaker 3:Then there were people who were less political but they talked about community psychiatry. We have to improve our communities. Then there was psychoanalytic psychiatry, where you had to understand people. There were branches and I went into psychiatry thinking that I was going to do some combination maybe of community and psychoanalytic or something. But I didn't think it was going to make a big difference in psychiatry. I thought you have I'm not sure how much I have stopped more or less lobotomy. Then from there on we have to kind of wonder. But I have been working at it and lobotomy is going to come back as soon as I'm gone. I already have them saying we just got to get rid of him.
Speaker 1:Wow, Okay. Well, for people who don't know, you're one of the reasons why frontal lobotomies are now not happening. So for people who don't know—.
Speaker 3:Rarely rarely. They hide them now?
Speaker 1:Okay, well, tell people what one is, because I think when we get to the term chemical lobotomy, it'll mean more to the listener.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I've talked enough about it myself specifically. Yeah, and I've talked enough about it myself specifically. Psychiatry had its only revolution in the 1930s. The revolution was they realized that if they damaged the brain they could make their patients docile. That is the only revolution we've ever had in psychiatry and the endpoint of all psychiatric treatments is docility. It's a blessing if you're in the hospital to the nurses, and sometimes it's a blessing to your family if you've been very difficult or they're very violent, and sometimes it's a blessing to yourself because you think you're not suffering anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it's never because you've been made more powerful. Psychiatry never makes you more powerful. It never makes you able to think better. It always messes with your brain and it has to be distinguished from psychotherapy, which is no longer done by psychiatrists. The psychoanalytic wing is gone, so they don't even teach you to talk. They teach you you can't talk to schizophrenia.
Speaker 1:Now really the exact only way you can help them is with a chemical intervention at this point. Is that instantly yes?
Speaker 3:and very fast as possible in the emergency room preferably and tell them they can never come off.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, so frontal lobotomy. For my understanding of it, there's a probe under the eye that goes up into the brain. Is that right?
Speaker 3:that's one way, that's one avenue. So in the 30s we get electroshock treatment. Okay, everybody knows what that is. I think you blast your brain, poor patient's brain. You send them into a coma with convulsions. You do it in the old days with just enough electricity to cause that. Nowadays why they claim it's safer you do it with eight to ten times the electricity needed to cause the coke. It's built in a machine. You can't even do the lighter amounts. So you give a person enough electricity to mimic an extremely severe blow on the head from smashing your head into the windshield of your car and then you are knocked out and you have convulsions. Maybe you always have them. With electricity you have convulsions makes them worse. So not only is your brain injured, it's going flatline for a time and then convulsing, or going flatline in some weird combinations. It's awful.
Speaker 3:Into that picture a man named Moniz. Into that picture a man named Moniz M-O-N-I-Z in Portugal in 1938, decides that he's going to open the heads of his patients he's a psychiatrist I'm trying to remember what he exacted in vet schools, he's more like a neurologist and to open their heads surgically and slice and dice the front of the brain. And he invents an instrument that's sort of curved with a wire like a dicer, and he dices into the front of the brain. It's particularly what's called the prefrontal cortex. It's particularly what's called the prefrontal cortex. Now, the prefrontal cortex is in front of the frontal lobes and it is the surface area. That's the cortex, the surface area, and it's where the finest tuning things take place of civilization. The whole frontal lobes is like the embodiment of civilization in us. It is, it's the largest lobe, it's what gives us in comparison, say, monkeys or dogs or apes, a bulging forehead. Walter Freeman really liked this a lot.
Speaker 3:He was a brutal psychiatrist. Everybody respected him or feared him. He was in America, so he took this over America. He did 5,000 of these and he did them like a monster. He would get a little 10-year-old girl in his office, tell mom she needed an lobotomy on the first visit, give her shock treatment to knock her out, and take a dirty ice pick and slip.
Speaker 3:This is the last time you'll hear me be like this today. I won't. Don't stop listening. Take a dirty ice pick, slip it around the eyeball and punch it through the very thin bone behind the eye and swoosh it Gosh A monster. And then he would do shows at state hospitals around the country. He was never confronted, never threatened, until I came along, which is quite bizarre. As far as I know, he never had a lawsuit against him until I came along is quite bizarre. As far as I know, he never had a lawsuit against him until I came along and he would do a show, sometimes like like a glad, you know, like a bull guy, you know, tormenting the bull in the ring he put two ice picks to once and swish him around. People know that he barely wiped them between the patients wheel wheel in and out. Wow, one split second of that ice pick. One split second it revocably changed a full human being into a sham.
Speaker 1:Hmm, yeah, what a process. Well, so that that's the. That's what a lobotomy is, friends. And when you hear him describe, as we go on, what a chemical lobotomy modern psychiatric meds are, now you have a context for that all modern psychiatric meds, all psychiatric meds, starting with the very most powerful ones, originally were invented.
Speaker 3:All psychiatric meds tamper with, and either over-activate or suppress, nerves that go throughout the brain. Some of them focus on the main pathway to the frontal lobes, and those are the so-called antipsychotic drugs. They're not ant-psychotic at all. They do the same thing to a normal animal or chimpanzee as they do to people. They take away your ability to be yourself, to be energized, to be loving, to be caring, to be hateful, maybe not to be angry. Some can still get angry.
Speaker 3:I think it's a lower phenomenon. Judgment's gone, self-insight is gone. You can communicate, and sometimes sensitively, and I've done it with patients to whom that has been done. But it is so sad, it is so incredibly sad to try to do it. It's like a tragedy. You're like in a tragedy. It's like you're helping a soul come through a damaged brain. That's what it feels like. It feels like I see you there. I see you there, but they can't get out. And this is, in fact, what happens to many patients who are routinely on antidepressants, on stimulants, mood altering drugs, people who love them, routinely on antidepressants, on stimulants, mood-altering drugs, people who love them and this could be somebody here I'm talking to now, somebody who's just on routine psych drugs. You may not even know that you're not quite there.
Speaker 3:But, if you've got a drug that is changing your brain. It is not helping your brain, it's making it a little less functional. You can recover. I've written a book Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal and you don't want to stop your meds automatically because it's too dangerous, and I'll tell you more about the book and the principles later, if we get a chance. But right now we're talking about the book and the principles, later if we get a chance. But right now we're talking about the horror. Um, I'll give you a, an example, a very simple example for myself.
Speaker 3:Benadryl is used in psychiatry a lot. It's used because it impacts certain areas of the brain that the psychiatric drugs impair and they're sometimes used to try to reverse things that the drugs do. Because it impacts certain areas of the brain that the psychiatric drugs impair and they're sometimes used to try to reverse things that the drugs do, because it's doing the same thing but differently to these regions. So Benadryl is a big antihistamine, which are where some of the just to tie it together, a lot of the antipsychotic drugs are derived from antihistamines. Originally I would take a Benadryl because I have had some asthma it's almost gone now, really it's gone now and allergies some allergies, mostly gone now and I would take it at night and then I would get up in the morning and I would get irritable with ginger as I withdrew from the Benadryl in the morning or was still toxic or both, because you can be toxic and didn't withdraw and I'd get irritable and she'd say, honey, I didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 1:That's the Benadryl talking darling.
Speaker 3:And I would say something yes, that's right. She wouldn't do it grim, she wouldn't make fun of me. She'd say I think it's the Benadryl. And. I'd say I'd do some insight but I'd be a little foggy coming out of the Benadryl and I'd say I'm sorry and work on it. And then the second or third day I got it and I've never taken Benadryl again.
Speaker 1:Good for you Well talk to us about the part of the brilliance of the pharmaceutical companies. Was that two-word phrase chemical imbalance? So talk about the concept of a chemical imbalance. Is that a strictly a marketing thing, or is it just a? Well, it's a goddamn fraud.
Speaker 3:They'd never, they'd never. They oh god, how they didn't want me in a courtroom talking about this stuff. I wouldn't say a goddamn fraud. I'll say it's totally untrue. It's a marketing ploy to. The only imbalance that actually occurs in the brains of people who are going routinely to psychiatrists is the first drug dose. That's a violent biochemical imbalance, induced instantly as soon as it gets into your blood brain and gets into your bloodstream. Then it crosses the barrier of the brain. The brain is crafted to be protected from trauma by a skull and by some water there that gets into the brain and other things meninges and by a private circulatory system. It sort of says hey, I'm the brain, I'm not going to relate to all the junk you put in your circulatory system and I'm not supposed to. So you've got to get into the circulatory system the moment a neurotoxin enters. And all psychiatric drugs are neurotoxins and they knew it in the beginning. Now they don't teach it anymore. But it's still true.
Speaker 3:They give the same drugs and they don't say it's a neurotoxin. Once it gets through the blood-brain barrier it is going to routinely wash over all the neurons in the brain, wash through the. You know it just goes everywhere. It's a fluid in a biological soft process. So now some drugs will be more attracted to one place or another, but they're going everywhere.
Speaker 3:The frontal lobes are huge. Any drug that's affecting the brain is going to affect the frontal lobes directly or indirectly. Dopamine is the main neurotransmitter system to the frontal lobes, but serotonin I'm sorry, but serotonin goes everywhere. So if you just look at two different drug groups, you look at the antipsychotics and what was quickly learned back in 1950s when they were discovered was they stop up some basic system. They didn't know it was dopamine in the basal ganglia of the brain, dopamine in the basal ganglia of the brain, just like a disease they recognized called large encephalitis, large, large. I think I'm the only doc who ever wrote a full paper on this and delivered it in statement. I suppose that there is this disease.
Speaker 3:They knew of Lethargic encephalitis. It spread around the world at the end of the Spanish flu and then disappeared. It's a kind of a mystery disease. Still not sure exactly what caused it. Most people think it's a virus, but it doesn't have the same infectious qualities it didn't. But it made people lethargic and apathetic. And then it affected the part of the brain below the frontal lobes called the basal ganglia where coordination takes place, where, whether you can reach properly and speak properly, anything that involves any voluntary muscle, whether you breathe properly, it's all coming out of there and that got disrupted and they'd have huge neurological conferences. This flu-like syndrome that made people apathetic, gave them all these weird things, sometimes made them psychotic, sometimes killed them, sometimes didn't. They've got textbooks on it and doctors don't even know it existed.
Speaker 3:And they saw that and they said when we give thorazine, the first big drug, thorazine, you still can get that. In an emergency room in particular, I feel like I'm a little nutty, a little scary, um, that you get all the same symptoms. Wow. And so they said and they wrote this we could. We realized we could cause virtually an epidemic of this kind of lethargic encephalitis by just giving out the medicine. Well, within one year to two years, every single state hospital in the world was subdued by Thorazine, haldol, and they're still being given to people and derivatives of it, like Afilify, vega, zyprexa, seroquel you'll take for sleep. There's a whole raft of drugs. You can Google dopamine blockers. You'll find some things that are used for nausea. They're dopamine blockers. All of them can all cause this array of distortions. And now on television you'll see them making money from drugs that are used to control TD. You see this on television. They're horrible drugs. I would avoid them, even if you have TD, unless you're an extremist, because TD can disable you.
Speaker 1:TD is what? For people who don't know? It's part of dyskinesia.
Speaker 3:Delayed dyskinesia, heart of dyskinesia. Okay, delayed dyskinesia Because the dyskinesia usually takes 30 days or more before it first appears. It can appear with your first dose. I've been in legal cases, done a lot of legal cases, oh, and the things they do to prevent me from having any more legal cases are amazing. They must be buying off lawyers around the world. I mean, it's quite amazing.
Speaker 1:Wow, Okay. Well, let's rewind history a little bit too, because you recently did a great interview with Dr Lee Vliet about the dangers of methylene blue and one of the things I didn't know is how old it is. So talk about the history of that a little bit and how it was. And you even made the comment it's used as a base for medicines today. So talk to us a little bit about the dangers of that or anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, I became very concerned. I like to think of myself as a member of the loosely affiliated health freedom fighters.
Speaker 3:We're glad to have you and, by the way, this is the first group I've been as happy to be in as I was with my Jewish friends in high school, and they're all Christians. Zedis Olenko, who is one of the people who did an introduction for my book COVID-19 and the Global Predators one of the few Jews who's taking strong stands. He died. They didn't tell him he died, he just fought through cancer to keep working. But that Christian group I'm in now is the happiest group I've ever been in. I mean, and so my wife's Christian. My mother, who we have living with us for nine years, is Christian. So I have a new personal religion. I'm a Jew who thinks Jesus was the greatest prophet of all time.
Speaker 1:That brings up interesting conversations, for sure.
Speaker 3:Doesn't it, oh my God, doesn't it. Yeah, I'm not a what do they call the Jews Messianic Jew?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not a messianic Jew.
Speaker 3:That's a different thing. I'm actually a Jew who believes Jesus was the greatest rabbi of all time and I'm happy to have the Christians promoting him, because God certainly has wanted that, or it wouldn't have happened in such a grand way. And, of course, the Jews eventually rejected him because you know competition, I mean, he was such competition, yeah, he was. And then when he became part of the boy is this going far afield then? Would he be, but it's having fun. Then, when Jesus, then, when Christianity becomes part of the Roman Empire and the Jews have to make this big choice, are they going to stay with Jesus, join the Roman Empire?
Speaker 3:That's very confusing in the first couple of hundred years after Jesus. And so you get the leaders, the elite, just doing what they always do they take over, they set the rules and they set the opposition and the Jews and the Christians. I don't know why they even kept this in set the rules and they set the opposition and the Jews and the Christians. I don't know why they even kept us in the Bible, but they did. They put us in the Bible with them. But the separation occurs and the leadership on either side dooms itself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a whole different can of worms I can get into too. I just recently traveled to some of the Holy Land. Oh my Well, let's go back to methylene blue then. So that is the.
Speaker 3:So I got concerned that my almost entirely christian friends were promoting methylene blue, making money from their um, not their pharmacies but their stores because you don't need a prescription for methylene blue. And they think, and many, many people I discovered thought methylene blue was new and amazing. But what really bothered me, and still does, is that leading companies are selling it that are supposed to be alternative medicine. And who told me they would never sell anything that was a pharmaceutical? Even they make believe it's not a pharmaceutical, it's the mother of all pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 1:Methylene blue is literally a mother, but too toxic to be fda proof of that and it pred predates the FDA because it was 1870s right when it came out.
Speaker 3:That's right I think it might have been 76, 1876, when it was discovered, it was the first chemical people believed. History is hard to know, but people believe it was the first chemical made in the lab and applied to medicine and because of some effects that it has on the mitochondria, which is to enforce a greater uptake of oxygen, it could be used as an antidote to something called methemoglobinemia. I don't want to bother the audience about this very narrow concept but basically, if the blood cells were poisoned by any number of drugs that could poison them, the mitochondria could pump up and make a better utilization of what oxygen there was. This is seen as a miracle. It's not a miracle. It's an abnormality created in mitochondria functioning which happens to help you if you've been poisoned and you need the mitochondria to deliver an abnormal amount of oxygen. You see, that's the truth. But what you hear to see this is a miracle. It's an abnormality that happens to coincide and that's it. But what everybody is ignoring is that that's not the main effect of the drug and it never was thought of as the main effect.
Speaker 3:But it did get approved as by the fda, without testing for safety or efficacy, just grandfathered in. They did the same thing with electroshock. That's how evil the deep state is. They grandfathered in electroshock treatment to save an effect that repeated blows on your head till you wouldn't get killed by it. Yeah, um, and I think what happened is that in itself, methylene blue was so neurotoxic to the brain neurobrain toxic poisons that they never could directly use it. So because you know the pharmacy people, they want to use something no matter what and the idea that it was too high.
Speaker 3:Some of the people twist this. I can understand that. But they twist things and say, well, the FDA didn't approve it because it was too good. New drug too good, no old drug so bad that even the FDA couldn't approve it for general use. Even the FDA couldn't approve it for general use because the FDA points out, even with its limited use as an antidote to poisoning, it could kill you with a serotonin syndrome. What is serotonin syndrome? If you jack up the neurotransmitter serotonin too much with almost any antidepressant, certainly all the commonly used ones, the SSRIs jack up serotonin. It can get way out of control and you can get a severe hyperactivity of your brain that results in your muscles tying up while you may shake, your brain losing its function and you have a hypertensive crisis and you can die of a heart attack or have a hypertension Cave in your brain. Really, you can't cave in your heart. And so the FDA has this on its website. I think I'm the first person in our whole group of whatever how many hundreds who ever found it, because people don't know enough to look. This is my error.
Speaker 3:In addition, methylene blue, which you can get over the counter from too many places, jacks up everything that's called a monohumene oxidase, an MAOI, m-a-o-i. M-a-o-is are known for controlling serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine so that you don't get hurt by them. You know it's a control mechanism. Moan amine oxidase it's supposed to stop it from getting out of control by its oxidation processes. That's maybe simpler. So it's supposed to stop it from getting out of control by its oxidation processes that's maybe simpler. So it's supposed to inhibit. It's called an inhibitor. It's supposed to inhibit the things that are stimulating serotonin, dopamine, all of which can make you crazy. Epinephrine all those things can drive you into a psychosis, mania and so on.
Speaker 3:And indeed it was early identified as an MAO inhibitor. And so what they did was they thought to themselves, the psychiatrists, if we tinker with it and make it less poisonous, they had to make it less poisonous, had to make it less poisonous. We'll give it as a stimulant. It'll make some people less depressed. They'll feel less depressed. We'll get a new stimulant. We'll get a new thing we can sell, though, as an anti-depressant. That's what we'll tell people. It is not just a stimulant, and I'd be. And what happened is we had a series of MAOI drugs. The first two was so bad to actually throw them out of the FDA. The other three that are still around are almost never used because they're so dangerous and if you make the mistake of eating the wrong food or taking the wrong drug and they combine, you can die of a serotonin syndrome. Now, since it's not in common, use the MAOI one way to find out, and it's never been studied deeply. Well, I do have some studies, but I'm not going to bother with them today.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've written all about this. I've got your blog post about it.
Speaker 3:Okay, let me just tell you folks Go to Peter and Ginger Bregan's Substack Emergency Notification. This is what I wrote Emergency Notification Cold Methylene blue is highly neurotoxic to your brain and mind. Subtitle comment Methylene blue is a monamine oxidase inhibitor, maoi. As such, it is one of the most toxic agents ever used in medicine and psychiatry and the mother of the most dangerous drugs used in psychiatry.
Speaker 1:There you go, people. Yeah, I appreciate you mentioning that, because several people have reached out to me asking my opinion on methylene blue and I just have never studied it enough to feel comfortable having an opinion. And then I saw you and Dr Vliet talk about it and I'm like, finally, people, I trust that would know what they're talking about. So thank you for talking about that, and one of my understandings is you could prescribe any psychiatric med that you want to, but you don't prescribe any of them. Is that right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, let me get to that in a minute, I'll finish this up. Okay, now the FDA did study these things. So there is an official FDA label for Parnate, which is one of the MAOI inhibitors, and basically they all do the same, but the studies are different, so sometimes it's a little different than what they happen to notice. But this is under psychiatric disorders, the dangers of MAOI inhibitors for psychiatric disorder. For the psych term, the first one, and that means it's the most common one excessive stimulation, slash over-excitement.
Speaker 3:Second, manic symptoms, slash hypomania, next agitation, next insomnia, next anxiety, then confusion, disorientation, loss of libido, nervous system disorders, dizziness, restlessness, akathisia, which is a horrible inner torment. Akinesia, which is sort of stuck and unable to move. Ataxia, which is unable to walk. Myoclonic jerks, which are big jerks, tremors, hyperreflexia, your reflexes around the control, muscle spasm, parasthesian numbness, memory loss, the opposite, sedation, drowsiness and on and blood pressure elevation. And what's not in that list, because that's the psychiatric disorders, is serotonin syndrome, which looks like this but which is a flagrant neurological disorder that can lead to death. But it's in that direction. Now, if you know anything about drugs, you know this is practically identical to methamphetamine and the official chemical name of methylene blue is methyl dioxide, methamphetamine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that whole list of symptoms you just read are from these MAOI inhibitors, if I.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and it is a classic, and called this in the fda literature maoi inhibitor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's the base for so many of the psychiatric meds of today well, what happened is yes, first of all, as I noted first, it became the first antidepressants, the first maoi inhibitors, but they had to be tinkered with. You couldn't mess with this thing. And when they finally did mess with this thing, nobody uses them anymore. Nobody uses drugs the drugs that you can buy over the counter methylene blue and that even freedom fighter organizations are forcing on you, and even freedom fighters themselves in their testimony making money and some of them are real freedom fighters themselves in their testimony.
Speaker 3:Making money, yeah, and some of them are real freedom fighters. Making money is actually so bad that it has never been able to be jerry-rigged into a drug that psychiatrists would want to use. And if you're on it and, by the way, let's say you're taking it and you happen to eat just a little too much, or maybe just enough, of something with soy in it, or drink a beer or drink a beer yeah, you read, you read my stuff or drink a beer, or eat any number of a dozen or two dozen foods, or if you happen to be on any other drug.
Speaker 3:Like almost any psychiatric drug is going to interact with this, because almost any psychiatric drug is messing with at least one of those four neurotransmitters dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine or epinephrine. It's a disaster. Don't do it, don't risk it. And my friends who are doing this and selling this I still haven't been openly criticizing you. Please, for God's sake, stop, before God taps me on the shoulder and says, peter, you got to do it, you got to name these names.
Speaker 1:Yep, I don't want them to have to go through that, so thank you for warning them.
Speaker 3:I don't want them to have to go through that. So thank you for warning them. I don't want my friends to go through that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean, but talk about the supposed benefits. What are people actually experiencing when they're talking about all the ways they feel better?
Speaker 3:Well, it was interesting because you know one of our really greatest of greats, oh God, of our really greatest of greats, uh, oh god, um, I won't even mention his name. He gets on the air and is bragging that he only took one half the dose of the drug he's selling, methylene blue, and it made him feel like he had every energy in the world and he was this and this and it all happened in half an hour. And then he gets other people People will know who I'm talking about if they listen to him. He's like maybe the most heroic figure in freedom, especially in taking on globalism. And then he has a friend come up and say hey, did you experiment with it? Oh, yeah, I took it half an hour ago. How do you feel? It's wonderful. I feel like I'm running while I'm sitting. Still, oh gosh, I feel like I have more power than ever and I'm thinking better. I guarantee you they're not thinking better, they're thinking more grandiosely.
Speaker 3:It's part of the awful state you get into and people tell me it's all about the dose. And that's what these people do when they defend themselves. Oh, the dose? No, no, that's big doses are dangerous, first of all. No, it's the routine dose of MAOI that does it. But secondly, you can't say the dose is safe. You have people on television demonstrating it's making them near crazy and they don't even know it and they jump around and look like weird people on television. The dose is sufficient to have an effect. It's potentially ruinous to your mind.
Speaker 1:They're having a trip or more, so that's exactly thank you for that.
Speaker 3:That's right. These people are on a stimulant weird trip. Yeah, and I have criticized Bobby Kennedy People. You know we have pictures of him taking what's probably methylene blue and he's never said no. And other people have said on the air I know Bobby and he loves his methylene blue. And Bobby is also encouraging giving veterans hallucinogens and MALY life drugs to now do new things in medicine. It's not no Bobby, you I'm going to confront. Yeah. And RFK. Uh, this is dangerous.
Speaker 1:This is very bad, well, and I'm thankful that somebody's courageous enough. With the reputation, you have to say something. So thank you for doing that and thank you, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3:So we did have to make a decision yeah, well, it's like a lot of topics.
Speaker 1:I sometimes I'm like do I want to get back into that and and take some more arrows, or have people just come out of the woodwork to tell you that you're an idiot? Like you know? Sometimes you just have to stand in the fire and I look to people like you who've done it and say it's worth it, and I'd rather do right by my conscience and say something than just puts it on my hands. So I appreciate you doing that.
Speaker 3:So let me talk generally about it. Thank you, let me talk generally about the drugs. I want to finish in half an hour, okay. You got it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or so In general, you can feel good with a psychiatric drug if it jacks you up and that makes you feel better, If it jacks you down and that makes you feel better, or if it makes you indifferent. That is, you don't get lower or are you getting different, which I think is potentially the worst of all. And so people go on these drugs and stay on them because they're getting some sense at times of feeling more excited or feeling not so overwhelmed but a little depressed or get numb. Now the final common pathway and, by the way, this is my stuff, other people don't see this obvious. It's in all my books. It's in Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal. It has everything I'm talking to you about it in the first half. It is the best book. If you really can't afford a book that's priced like a medical book because it's put out by a medical publisher. Because I wanted that power behind one of my books. You can read a chapter about it in Medication Madness. But don't just come off your drug. It's too dangerous, much, much too dangerous, much, much too dangerous. It's what I do a lot of is help people come off. It's very dangerous Because the brain that's part of what I want to tell you. So one of the most common things that happens whether it's chronic blow on the head, chronic illness, chronic exposure to any drug alcohol, marijuana and other things is you become less engaged in life. You just lose your edge and you don't know it.
Speaker 3:Early in Prozac I had a patient come in who was a very sophisticated spiritual man with his wife and she brought him in. They came in together and she said my husband's on this Prozac and maybe she read one of my earliest books so long as the main copy is talking back to Prozac. I was the medical expert for all the combined suits against Eli Lilly for Prozac. Wow, a judge in power fed for a judge in power with me to go look me only to look at the secret materials inside of Eli Lilly Wow, that's another whole story filled with fraud, deception. It's just an amazing story. But this person came. I couldn't have written Talking Back to Prozac without having had that appointment because it gave me the opportunity some of it paid to dive into the literature to interview people at the FDA. I was a medical expert for all these lawsuits. I was a medical expert for all these lawsuits, but he told me that he was comfortable on Prosa and his wife said honey, you don't even greet the dog happily when you come home. And she talked about the loss of consortium and love.
Speaker 3:And it took my colleagues a long time to recognize that practically everyone, man or woman on drugs, begins to quote lose libido or at least have some dysfunction. But because psychiatrists and physicians are in the lead, they miss the big point. They lose the capacity to love. They don't lose it, they can get back.
Speaker 3:And you don't even know it. You forget that you once looked at your wife and at least sometimes it was just like 20 years ago, yeah, and you've just been at a happiness and you can't believe. You know, you remember that you thought God must have arranged it. How could this woman love me? Or how could I love her? Someone it goes, it's not there anymore. I don't think there's a drug that doesn't take it away. But psych drugs are aimed at crossing your blood-brain barrier and being especially potent, and if they don't affect your frontal lobe they have to affect your frontal lobe. So they wouldn't even be a psych drug. But when they affect your frontal lobe the first thing that gets compromised is like when I would get up in in the morning, recovering from a combination of toxicity and withdrawal from taking an antihistamine.
Speaker 1:Wow, is that what you refer to as medication, spellbinding this idea that you just Thank you, you're helping me with this interview. Thank you Well you're welcome yeah. Go run with that term or define it for people. What is that?
Speaker 3:Well, it's a term I invented because doctors don't want to see it. I shouldn't have had to invent it, because we know from alcohol, we know from marijuana, we know from smoking, cigarettes things we see in front of our faces that the effects, the bad effects on people, aren't recognized by the people. It's not just that they're lying to themselves because they need to talk so bad. That's what I probably thought before. I learned more on my own, not from the textbooks, but seeing people working with people as therapists because you gotta be working with people. I mean the psychiatrist no longer even talk to their patients. Apparently they talk to the nurses who talk to the patients. It's a disgrace. They don't even talk to the social worker who's treating the patient who sent them to it.
Speaker 3:You know it's just a force, it's assembly line drugging. But if you get to talk with the people you realize they're not engaged with you like they must have been in the past. If you do family therapy, like I love to do, my favorite thing is helping people love one another. Um, you, you hear from the husband with the. You know so many women around their drugs, you antidepressants in particular. You hear the antipsychotics, all mood stabilizers, all stimulants. This is why teachers like kids on stimulants. They disengage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're easier to manage, I suppose.
Speaker 3:They're easier to manage. And the children on many of these drugs, but particularly on the stimulants, they get OCD. So they do what they're told obsessively but they don't learn more, they learn less. They will get so obsessive that they might be sitting in class and taking such notes that they even tear the paper with their pencil. Or one story of the kid whose dad asked him to go out and rake the lawn and when the kid didn't show up he went out and he was sitting under the tree making sure he caught each leaf. Wow, man, so well.
Speaker 3:You'll see the same thing from addicts to stimulants. They'll go up on the roof of the house, start washing the risk of life, be washing in the roof or something. A lot of obsessive. It's from something that's done to that area called the basal ganglia that people don't know enough about. It's below the frontal lobes. The effect. So we're making our kids zombie-like and I actually, when I write about this, I find my zombie-like syndrome in the American textbook of psychiatry from about 20 years ago that they took out, but they used to say, oh, and the children get a zombie effect. Well, it's a lesser zombie effect. You're seeking jerks. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's an extension of what you're seeking, yeah. You make them well and the sad part is people.
Speaker 1:They think that the medication is what is helping them function. They don't recognize that it's keeping them from functioning. Is that?
Speaker 3:that's right, exactly right, yeah, that's right, I had a kamikaze pilots function on stimulant drugs. It's just to give them their amphetamine and take it as a ritual and it would help make them obsessively focused on what they were told Dang. And in fact during Afghanistan they did that some canadian pilots and they accidentally bombed their own people. That's a true story.
Speaker 1:I'll have to look that one up again and remind myself of the story, but that's a true story man, yeah, I had a client years ago who was 100 pounds overweight and she wanted me to help her get the weight off because she couldn't win the argument that that was healthy or that her family liked it or it was good for her career. But she was on one of these medications and her want to was gone. She literally did not care that she was overweight and there was no leverage point anywhere. It was my window into whoa. If somebody doesn't want to work to get off these, I don't know that I can help them.
Speaker 3:This is what? That's right. This is what the antipsychotic drugs routinely do to people they make them obese. The SSRIs fool people because they have a stimulant effect often not always and if you get that stimulant effect, you lose weight for the first few months and then you get the same effect, the chronic effect. So it's a trap.
Speaker 3:And you mentioned the medication spellbinding chronic, so it's a trap. And you mentioned the medication spellbinding, so people can't get out of their position because their frontal lobes are harmed enough to not be sensitive to their plight or motivated to get through it. But a loving partner can sometimes break through that yeah. They can break through it. I've seen loving partners understand even that they've been living with 10 years of craziness. And it's not the woman they married or the man they married.
Speaker 1:It started with the drugs yeah, yeah so you say, one of the things I appreciate about your work or just find so endearing is how much you genuinely care about the human condition, and hearing you talk today I can sense it. So yeah, I've heard you talk before just about kind of the point of suffering or the value it can have and giving space to wrestle with hard things instead of medicating or suppressing our feelings like this. So talk to the listener a little bit about that.
Speaker 3:Well, I shouldn't have to read myself, but I don't want to miss it. I have five principles that I try to live by.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're doing good. You're preempting where I was going to wrap up. That's great, keep going. You're going to wrap up? No, not yet, but you can read them now. They're so good.
Speaker 3:The first one and I've tinkered on this ever since I gave the original rendition in a book called Wow, I'm an American, which is really appropriate to now. A buddy from my beautiful jewish group in high school became eventually my agent and he wouldn't handle a book that said wow I'm an american because he was a progressive new yorker and he didn't wake up proud to be an american was my introduction into just how bad it had gotten. But here first, and I'll explain each one a little bit, this is not a bad place to be right now. First, dare to trust in a loving God. That's the last one I put on because I was embarrassed about it and then I realized it takes a daring for an intellectual. You know I'm an intellectual. I think a lot. I've written many scientific papers I bolster. All of my discussions with you today are in scientific papers on my website and in all of my books. No, not all, but in the books about drugs yeah, they're in there.
Speaker 3:But in the books about drugs yeah, they're in there. I realized I was daring to trust in a loving God, that my wife was saying God loves me and I had to dare trust him.
Speaker 1:Love, that Is that amazing.
Speaker 3:It is and she's so good for you. Well, listen, we were both so wounded, as often because of family and as often because of ourselves. We both had two marriages before this, we both had divorces and we both were scared to death of how much we loved each other at first sight, and I for one, after falling in love with her, never saw her again for 10 years. That's how scared I got and I noticed that my clients I that I often recognize when they fall in love because they're so scared to know and talk about it and they want to brush it off. And finally God had to be. God put me together in another part of the country, 2,000 miles away from where we met, and just stuck us together via a friend who was an ex-girlfriend of mine, and I met her and I asked her to marry me because I'd grown up. That day.
Speaker 3:I had courage and that day she said, yes, wow, good timing, and um, so I say we've been covertly in love for 10 years and we've been married for 42. Um, so one of the things she did yeah, I want people to go on courage, people dare love each other. One of the things she did do you remember the movie? It was a black woman who was an angel and a beautiful white woman who was an angel, and the black woman was like really robust and strong. I wouldn't call her beautiful so much as just amazing and full of life. And they were angels.
Speaker 1:I have not seen this. Okay, keep going.
Speaker 3:And touched by an angel. That was the series and it always ended in this way with one of the angels. And I apologize for saying that other woman was beautiful. Actually, she was not my classic beauty. There you go, fair enough, but the other woman was a standard, classic, ordinary white woman beauty. I don't want to be in a hole, not that I haven't found black women very beautiful, right, including my nanny, who raised me and gave me my spirit, handed me my christian underlying spirit there you go oh, it's so complicated but it would always end with something ginger decided I needed, and that is as god's appointed angel.
Speaker 3:she would stand up to me when I was sad and she would put a flashlight behind her head because she didn't have the radiance of a film, an artificial light and all. She would shine it up through her auburn hair and say God loves you. Wow, and I know it because he told me.
Speaker 3:After a while and Ginger would look at my life with me, the outrageous fights I got in that I could have been destroyed in and that I won, except for when I started I lost. And again I was protected. I lost a fight because I was stupid. I was so bad at basketball I was really fast. I would steal a ball as a track guy and I'd run down and I'd miss the layup, you know. And I was so frustrated that I actually took a swing at the opposition guy in his own school on the way out. Whoops Never started a fight before. I staggered and fell without his touching me. When I reached up to get up, my arm was under the iron fence. Remember those old iron fences? They got a railing that's low and I'm completely stuck. I'm looking up at a guy who's now sitting on me, who's maybe 40 pounds heavier, and he looks at me, stands up and says jerk, and walks away. So I would tell Ginger these stories about the big guy, the fiercest guy in town, who attacks me. I managed to get him and force him before we even knew about these things, but I was kind of studying it. I, you know, I forced him to tap out and Ginger says to me you were protected by God, he's got these things for you to do. That's ridiculous, that would be narcissistic, that would be stupid. I just went the secular Jewish route and progressive route which I think goes with it, and I couldn't avoid the data. The data, the data of when they really tried to kill us and we survived. They went into our house, went right in the middle of, in the middle of my starting to be deposed for the eli lilly trials and I'm not blaming Eli Lilly, it could have been any number of drug companies. Now I know it could have been the deep state. I didn't know that because they're protecting all of this.
Speaker 3:Somebody managed to get into our basement where a previous person we didn't know but who came to fix the basement, had not cemented in the place either the exhaust from the furnace a very old oil furnace or the exhaust from the gas heater, and someone had come in later as I had constructed, and took them out and hid them in the corner. He came upstairs, his plumber was working on his. You know, your stuff's been removed. Ali was very sick, I was sick, we were going to doctors, ginger was sick, but my office was above ground and Ali and Ginger were right above the basement where they were all the time and Ginger just has been, you know, talking to me about this.
Speaker 3:We protected, do you realize? They tried to take your license away. But you protected me, honey, because they tried to take my license away and they set up a committee of lawyers my friends oh, my friend's lawyer friendly. They got together with me and I said, peter, your license is being attacked for it was for remarks I made on oprah winfrey, not a patient. It was that I told people on oprah winfrey allegedly to stop taking their meds, which I never did. Even told them don't start taking them.
Speaker 3:Which is different. It's vastly different. I said she asked me at the end. I got along really well with Oprah in those days. That changed later and she didn't keep calling me back. But I think it changed because I think she went on Prozac. She started to lose weight and look good. I think she was just don't the last show I had with her. She trapped me, which was ridiculous because she so supported me. She supported me during the attack on my license and stuff. Um, it was a change. You know, that's very dramatic, very dramatic change. I'm whispering because it's so sacred I don't know how to talk about this. But so they went after me for my oh.
Speaker 3:What Oprah did was at the very end of the show. She said Peter, what if you go to a doctor and you know a new doctor and they start writing you a prescription for medication? What do you do? Well, I had 30 seconds. I said put it in your pocket prescription. They didn't call them in. In those days, don't take the drugs but don't argue with the doctor it's not safe as if he's a psychiatrist and leave and go find a psychotherapist or any kind of doctor who really likes you and makes you feel good on the first visit. It's like shopping for a best friend. Basically, what I said must look a little different. Oh my god, did they go after me?
Speaker 3:The APA worked with an astroturf group called NAMI who brought the suit against me. People were dying all over the country because of me. They could never find one person that was serving me. But that was only allegations. Well, they got a committee. My friends got a committee together and they said Peter, here comes the angel, change your business. They said Peter, you have to slow down. Do not turn this licensure attack into a reform fight. Be collegial. Now, this was actually especially dangerous in Maryland, as I would find out, because they vet these charges through the AMA Committee on Ethics of the State of Maryland and I had to tear new spaces for the AMA on what they were doing and the state mental hospital.
Speaker 3:The guy who was really the commissioner a different title. He wrote a special letter saying I'm watching what you're doing. Wow, got on discovery. Yeah, you didn't say that. They said be really cordial, peter, don't make trouble for yourself. So we get ready to go to the AMA committee.
Speaker 3:No, we stopped and we assessed. We're scared thinking of how I'll make a living, thinking well, you know, I can really fix these guys if I go to law school, I could start all over again in a new way. I got great background being a lawyer. I'm great doing a lot of stuff. You know, I'm thinking to be brave and Ginger starts calling reformers around the country and asking them what do they think? I would never do anything like that. There was a great pediatrician who made I think they might have even taken his license away she got into a few people and she looked at her own experience doing PRs, great PR and other things that she had done. And she comes to me and she says honey, we've got to whack them so bad they'll regret it for the rest of their lives.
Speaker 1:They're playing offense instead of defense. It sounds like.
Speaker 3:Well, yes, but really because, she said, I've been told the only kind of people that join these committees are fascists. They want to get their colleagues and be mighty, punish people. This is not safe, she said. I want to go to the press.
Speaker 1:There you go. That's one way to do it.
Speaker 3:You turned it Well and now you see it was late 80s and it's a different press. Yes, it is Much much better press, infinitely better press.
Speaker 3:So, even though it was bad. So Oprah has me back on, she is determined to support me. She has me back on and her chief person is openly calling me to talk to me and say we're not backing down on your doc. And so I do a show on Oprah, it's not about this. And I come back and I come home Hi honey, I come in and she's sitting at my office desk and she says, wait, wait, I've got, oh God, I've got. And it's the biggest science writer in the country, the guy from New York Times who wrote Emotional Intelligence. Oh God, what's his name? I don't know that one. Oh wait, james, are you in the next room? Your?
Speaker 3:phone is ringing, she's on the line with the most important science writer in the world. Literally Nobody close who's name will come Green. And she says to him my husband just arrived and he wants to talk to you. And he says I don't want to talk to you, tell me more. So I don't even get to talk to him. He's so important. And dan goldman gold, goldman dan gold. And he comes out with a very balanced piece that suggests it's a freedom of speech issue and not even a medical issue. Nice, but it's's kind of balanced, yeah. And then Ginger gets every major newspaper she calls to cover this thing.
Speaker 1:Wow, she's your angel yeah.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, this is about angels, folks, we're going to end the show.
Speaker 3:I want you to think this is about angels. Folks, we're going to end the show. I want you to think about your own life, folks. And I only got through, for God's sakes, the first principle of trusting a loving God. That's all I'm talking about. I'll tell you quickly in a couple of minutes and then I'll be done with the other principles, but let this show inspire you. So then we go to the medical principles. But let this show inspire you.
Speaker 3:So then we go to the medical meeting of the you know the fascists of the medical society, the Maryland Medical Society, called the Ethics Group, and they won't let Ginger in. And I say I'm not coming. Well, we don't let one. And I said, okay, well, I'm going up here, you can come in with your lawyer. I said I'm not coming. So they backed down.
Speaker 3:I come in with Ginger on my left, my lawyer on my right and in the middle, while the chairwoman clearly thinks something's happening, and the only psychiatrist among the 20 people or so, only one psychiatrist. We had not been alert enough to check him out. I assumed he was bad, but I didn't check him out. Maybe I was afraid, maybe I was too busy. And in the middle of it, a butcher-looking psychiatrist who is an orthopedic surgeon or an OBGYN, I forget which he says. And, doc, I've listened to the whole transcript and you said these drugs damage people's brains. I said do you know what tardive dyskinesia is, sir? No, I look at the chairman, probably avoiding the psychiatrist, and I say, madam, may I give a seminar on brain damage from psychiatric drugs? A brief one, 10, 15 minutes, so that you will understand my motivation in going to the public, because doctors don't know the truth. And the psychiatrist pipes up yes, I'm for it. Yeah, he was a family therapist, he was an old-timer. Yeah.
Speaker 3:He was back in the days when my colleagues treated patients and so I did. So it's over. And she says to me okay, Dr Reagan, we're going to recommend that no charges be brought against you. But I warn you, that's up to the committee, it's up to the Maryland medical licensure people. So don't go to the press anymore, Bing. And so my lawyer says great, we're going home. My lawyer, and once we get to this little room, when we finish, we've gone home. Ginger says I'm not going to give up our free speech, Our free speech ahead of our medical license. We've been together three years. It's already our medical license. Yeah. And she says I have the phone number of eight home numbers. It's night time now. I have eight home numbers of the press and they're waiting to hear what happened. I don't think she told me, she didn't want to bother me. And I've got a whole purse full of quarters. I want to go to the hotel, to the bank of phones and start calling. I've got a whole purse full of quarters.
Speaker 1:I want to go to the hotel, to the bank of phones and start calling Pay phone days.
Speaker 3:Nice, yeah, I said okay, and our lawyer, you know he was. He was such a wimp out. God bless him, he's a nice man. I think he quit doing the law. He actually was the head of the local ACLU and, no, their lawyer. He was a big lawyer. But anyway, I don't want to implicate or even identify him. So we went to, they'd call, they'd give their little explanation, then they would have me on and New York Times carried a second story. The Baltimore Sun, who was with us waiting outside for us, did a big story. The AP carried the story all over the world. The Washington Post, their science writer wouldn't even talk to us but she found another reporter. The other reporter carried it and they not only exonerated me, they apologized at length. The state medical licensure people. They thanked me for my contribution to medicine in the state of Maryland and then a man I didn't know who was their medical committee head person gave an interview saying it was a freedom of speech issue and never should have been do I have an angel or not?
Speaker 1:yeah, well you. It's like you two were brought together just so that your mission could continue on some level beyond all the other benefits of it.
Speaker 3:This is what she said from very, pretty early on, pretty early on, and I think what completely I mean I. When I found out she hadn't finished college, my first thought was go to college. And she, she went to college and she well, she got so many credits for work that she started as a junior for the work she'd been doing previously. And then she wrote a paper for a graduate school paper this is her first semester and she won the award for the whole university for the best graduate paper in social sciences. And she said I think I'm going to stay home and take care of my daughter Allie, and you, and I'm going to do this work.
Speaker 1:Wow, and here you are ever since. Isn't that something it is. It's a remarkable story. I appreciate how you've woven it and kind of bookended the science-y part of it with just who you are, what drives you so let me finish with the principles.
Speaker 3:Go for it.
Speaker 1:I've probably lost my notes, but I should remember them.
Speaker 3:I've got them here, if you want them, all right. So, the first principle to remind you is dare to trust in a loving God. The next principle is take responsibility at all times, boy. I mean it all times. So if you and your wife are having an argument, take responsibility for yourself and help her.
Speaker 3:Then take responsibility for herself by seeing your image. Do not put a responsibility on your loved ones. Take responsibility in every way you can. And the third one is express gratitude for your gifts and opportunities, and I do that. I do it all day long. So help me God. And the next one is stand firm for freedom, and the final one is become a source of love yeah, those are great.
Speaker 1:I I captured those. When I saw them on your site, I'm like I don't know that I could come up with better ones.
Speaker 3:They're just so good I've been thinking about it since I was a kid. Somehow or other, it's just what I was meant to think about things since I was a kid. Yeah, I said as a kid that if I believed in God, I'd probably be a rabbi. Yeah, and now a rabbi is just a teacher.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you became an advocate for when you found all the people that you didn't have one and you saw so many people that didn't have one and that just obviously put a fire in your belly into perpetuity to stand up for the people that are unseen or the people that don't have an advocate, and it's yeah and then when covid hit, I was in a really good position because both ginger and I now had all the expertise, because she's got it all about the drugs enough to surprise me with new things.
Speaker 3:I haven't thought about in every year any area. And then she smiles and says well, you know, I've been in training for 40 years.
Speaker 1:Very good, you absorb a lot. She's obviously didn't she's just amazing.
Speaker 3:But she's just amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm thinking about. It makes me anxious sometimes when I talk about what we have, because there are enemies, yeah, and once in a while I say this and I'm going to say it Hurt us badly enough and you will make martyrs of us. So help me God. There are millions of people that love Ginger Brigham or Peter Brigham and hurt us. You tried once, twice, I've talked about it. People will be alert. Really hurt us. For my age it's euthanasia. I want to see Ginger have another 20 years and you will martyr us. So help me God.
Speaker 1:Anyway, yeah, well you're. I'm confident your work is going to outlive you and inspire so many people, and we will. I'm, I'm the the next generation here to carry the torch and to make sure, yes, we, we take this absolutely disgusting system that has an anti-human agenda in many ways and and turn it into what it could have been that actually cares for people.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, and it's about the whole world, folks. Now the corruption I watched grow. The whole world is in a state of corruption that it was never in before, and it's largely because it's like the the danger. So you, you develop an atomic bomb, you can use it for atomic energy and meet all energy needs, or you can blow people to hell with it, or you can, you know, make the world uninhabitable with it. Well, it's the same thing with communication. It's the same thing with everything that we have in this modern world ability to ship things, our ability to communicate instantly, our ability to get materials anywhere in the world. It's great for disasters, but it also opens the way for emperors to want to rule the world. And we really are facing corruption on the level of people who want to rule the world. And that is what I look at in the Global Predators. You know COVID-19, the Global Predators. We Are the Prey. Yeah, they're both.
Speaker 3:Ginger and I are both authors. I'd made me do the writing, but she does so much to inform me, inform the book, research, and we published that book. She made a publishing company and published that book. She didn't just go get somebody to help her do it, she became the publisher and she published it and 45 minutes after, because we knew we were turned down by one of the most radical publishers in the country after accepting it. So now I don't want it. A day later, so we had a sense of just what we were really now beginning to face, and so we were already threatened by YouTube that you better be nice or we'll throw you off. So we were nice. When you knew the book was coming out, there were no more cautions, no more warnings, uh and um. When the book came out, published by ginger under the name of lake edge press um her publishing company, not mine, her publishing um I went on youtube and announced it. We had a huge audience 45 000 back then in 1981, and um, they took us down in 45 minutes permanently.
Speaker 1:Not 1981. In 2021, you mean 21, 21.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry mistake. Thank you, I make that mistake a lot, 2021. Yeah, they took us down literally in less than 15 minutes because when I went to look it up we were gone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a video of my last interview. We put a clip on YouTube and they slapped us with a. You can't post again for three months, just like, of course, just-. And what was it on? It was on autism and the possibility that you could recover from it, and that's verboten on YouTube.
Speaker 3:You're not allowed to hey, folks, I've helped people recover from from a serious autism, at least one person I didn't get to see too many who went on to have a great life. And I've helped others, children like that, and you know how I did it. I helped the parents love and discipline them. The parents did it, clinton, the parents did it. I barely saw the kid that in this small community I live in who went on to live a wonderful life. I barely saw him because I told him that his parents changed and he worked with his parents, it was going to get better and his parents agreed. Don't buy this line. Bobby pushes it like crazy.
Speaker 3:I think he gets a lot of money for it. Bobby Kennedy, RFA. Yes, Autism is a disorder, even by definition of psychiatry, the DSM, the Diagnostic Manual. They want everything to be biologic. They can't attribute autism to genetics or biology, they just can't find anything.
Speaker 1:Because it's not Because it's not.
Speaker 3:I believe it is a deeply learned issue of socialization. And the man who invented the concept said it's new 1950s canter, leo canner, canner. Leo canner, canner set c-a-n-n-e-r. Said everyone I'm saying practically who have children, who will just stopped relating to them are not much raising their children, or somebody else is raising their children. Most of them are a couple of two working, professional, highly intelligent people. You outline the whole thing.
Speaker 3:And that's exactly the parents who were responsible enough, take responsibility to say we were both in school training like crazy to be a high power profession. And I said, dad, will you see him at least every weekend from now on, special time? He knows he's coming? He said you better, from now on, special time he knows it's coming. He said you better, and will you two work with me on loving each other, loving him and setting boundaries? Because that was the first thing I did. The kid came in, actually worse than just autistic, he had hallucinations, but he was diagnosed autistic and was going to get drunk and I said a lemon on it right away. I said, son, it's not in your best interest act crazy.
Speaker 3:Come sit down. He said it's terrible for you. Come, come sit down here. He sat down and I said you don't have to be like this, we're gonna help you, and he did. As this happens, he actually pretty much had a normal conversation with me from now, but if it's an adult, it doesn't happen that fast, boy.
Speaker 1:It can keep going back and forth for a long time yeah, I can imagine how many times you have practiced the skill of talking to people who others just don't know how to get through to and that's amazing.
Speaker 3:I've really been working on it and now and I'm going to be very abstract I have clients who don't speak and I see them on the phone with a family. They barely don't speak or they don't much speak. Huh, they barely don't speak or they don't much speak. And I'm learning to engage people who basically don't want to be there, but they'll show up a little and we're not forcing them. And I talk with a family member.
Speaker 1:And they listen.
Speaker 3:That's an interesting way to do therapy. I love it. You know it's about showing people that they matter. I mean I can literally yell across the room hey, and I'd love to see you again. That was great last week, that last two minutes we had, and I'd love to see you again.
Speaker 2:That was great last week, that last two minutes we had.
Speaker 3:And you know you get fond of people. If you learn about people and they're decent enough to show up, they're lovable. Yeah, you don't even have to really work at it very hard.
Speaker 1:No, because we all want to be Not in therapy, because they're already somehow there. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That wouldn't be true about, you know, hitler or Fauci. But you know it's true about the people who come for help, even if they're coming reluctantly, and somebody's holding their hands, you know. So there's hope out there, folks. There is Dare to have hope.
Speaker 1:I might add to this yeah, please do, and that's a good note to end on. But anything else you want to say to the listener Anything we didn't cover, that's burning in you. That is important, or let people know where they can find you.
Speaker 3:Love is ageless.
Speaker 1:That's a good one.
Speaker 3:Instead of running out. As you get older, you get wiser and you can love each other better yeah, there you go you know, I was so infatuated and out of my mind about this woman gender.
Speaker 3:Practically at first sight I thought man, that was it. That's why I got so scared. But there's other levels. There's other levels where, where you gotta bring in god or you won't know what's going on. I really think for me that's true. Yeah, well, I think I don't. I don't force that on my clients, but most of my clients are christians because of who I am Now. They're Christians who believe in freedom. They're often at least they believe in our principles not necessarily leaders in the movement or anything. So they're really happy to be surprised to hear that. Sure, why wouldn't God be here in this room, as well as anywhere else? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the love frame is important, well as anywhere else. Yeah, and, and the love frame is important. Like you, there's the dare, the dare part of your intellectualizing god, but it's a, it's a, it's a leap of faith to dare to. Could that possibly be true? And if god is existing and he's loving, that changes everything and somehow could this feeling much better?
Speaker 3:could that be just fake? I mean, well, maybe I feel better, right, I mean, it's like you get better, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you're you're, you're resonating with the one relationship you're made for, the primary one, and the rest comes from that. So I love it. Man, it was been an honor spending time with you today.
Speaker 3:I know I kept you over, so I appreciate it. Yeah, but this is a beautiful interview. I love it. Well, thank you. I'd like to put it up. You know, send us a copy. You're going to edit it much.
Speaker 1:No, I don't know that I need to. Well, people practice so many different parts of it, and that's the beauty of a kind of a ranging interview, and it is a range.
Speaker 3:We can do another one on other topics and let's yeah, let's hit another time. If it fits with you, it may not. If it fits with you, my next book is really going to be on hidden empires, which are really right there to see in front of your nose, your face, who are trying to destroy us. They're trying to destroy, as all empires have always done, and I don't know anybody else that's ever faced this as directly as me. All empires thrive on destroying freedom and destroying love. Yeah, that's what the book is about. Trump is facing empires. Some of them are really subtle and some of them are in your face, and I'm writing about that. It's not a mystery. I'm writing about it on the website now. I'm, you know, on On Substack, on Substack now, but that's what I want to do.
Speaker 1:Great, all right. Well, we'll reconnect for another Sure.
Speaker 3:When the book comes out, we'll surely call you All right? Well, we'll reconnect for another.
Speaker 1:Sure, when the book comes out, we'll surely call you All right. Sounds good, then All right. Well, thank you so much for spending time today. It's wonderful. I have links for all you guys.
Speaker 3:It's been delightful to meet you. Maybe someday you'll be passing by in upstate New York. Delightful to meet you, I hope so.
Speaker 1:I'd love to meet you in person.
Speaker 3:Watch this guy, if you tuned in for the first time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, come, come, check me out Deconstructing conventional. I got a whole bunch of other cool people like this guy that I've talked to, so good All right.
Speaker 3:You know some of my best friends. Actually, you know some Christian. You know some best friends.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad to hear that it's your best friend. I would be happy to meet okay, well, we'll think about that we'll look into that all right, sounds good. Thank you so much for the time today. Bye, bye.
